Jesus, Justice, and Gender Roles: A Case for Gender Roles in Ministry by Kathy Keller

Jesus, Justice, and Gender Roles: A Case for Gender Roles in Ministry Reviews

• 
  Jeremy

  Keller's view here is known as a thin/narrow complementarian position. In other words, we observe the Bible's role distinctions in the narrow ways mentioned in Scripture (home/church), but we don't have any natural law reasons for these differences in roles, and women can basically do anything that men can do in all other areas. See
  here for a related essay by Steven Wedgeworth, who argues that male-only ordination is natural, not some arbitrary rule that we follow for no reason. See also the link below at my note on pp. 20–22.
  
  Introduction
  7: moved with Tim to Manhattan in 1989; issues are incendiary in NYC—distinct gender roles are on the same level as child molestation for some people, but they should be seen as a gift; this isn't just academic for Kathy—she's attacked from both sides (some disagree re: roles, and some disagree that women should teach/speak in church); she was up for ordination at one time (in the PCUSA before it was called that)
  8: she'll address the hermeneutical front (Part 1) and the personal front (Part 2)
  
  Part 1: Hermeneutical Imperatives
  10–11: inerrancy (Jesus believed in the inspiration of the OT)
  42–43n6: story of her being booed/hissed because she had changed her mind on women's ordination
  11–12: two principles of hermeneutics: the Bible doesn't contradict itself, and biblical passages must be understood in their context; the clear interprets the cloudy
  43n8: the Bible is both human and divine
  13–15: what 1 Cor. 14:33b–38 can't mean (viz., women can't talk in church at all; Paul is not condemning women's talking, but regulating it)
  15–18: what it does mean (for orderly worship, women shouldn't judge prophets; see p. 20)
  43–44n13: prohibiting cross-examination of prophecy/husbands
  18–20: 1 Tim. 2:11–12 (forbidding women to teach authoritatively); the next chapter (1 Tim. 3) is about elders (see 44n16 on Teaching Elder and Ruling Elders); women are forbidden to participate with elders in "judging personal and corporate faithfulness to the apostolic 'deposit' of truth" (connected to the power of church discipline)
  44n17: interesting story on the sacred deposit of truth memorized by the Navajo shaman (errors in type were viewed as more serious than errors in the oral tradition)
  20–22: 1 Cor. 14 is cloudy (although something is clearly forbidden), but 1 Tim. 2 is clear (women are not to teach authoritatively); "anything that an unordained man is allowed to do, a woman is also allowed to do"; yes, we have to obey God's prohibition, but Keller doesn't know why God arranged things this way (gender-based division of labor) (see p. 29) [Alastair Roberts gives some rationale
  here.]
  22–23: Keller had to deal with people who argued that Paul didn't say what it sure seems like he said, but other arguments have arisen too
  23: one counterargument is that because Paul was a misogynist, we can ignore what he says; but Paul worked with women, had them carry his letters, established churches in their homes, and expected them to participate with Spirit-given gifts—only biblically illiterate people make this charge
  23–26: another counterargument is that Paul meant this strict prohibition only for a particular (Ephesian) congregation, because the cult of Diana had inflated women's view of their status; of course Paul's instruction was particular, but that does not mean that it was not universally applicable too (all Scripture is like that—to specific people, but for all God's people); in addition, 1 Timothy could be called a church planting manual (it's supposed to be taken universally, except perhaps for very specific personal instructions to Timothy; see 45n23—Paul's vocabulary/grammar implies a general applications) and is more or less a template for all churches; 1 Cor. 14:33b has global language, and Paul is clear that this is God's command, not his own (elsewhere [1 Cor. 7] Paul distinguishes between God's commands and his); Keller seems to say that "the Lord's command" (1 Cor. 14:37) means that Jesus Himself said this at some point (and we know from John 21:25 that Jesus did many things that were not recorded)
  26–28: re: the "outdated" counterargument (we now have "more light" to deal with cultural changes, such as slavery, women's roles, and homosexuality), Keller says that the OT is often descriptive instead of didactic/prescriptive (e.g., don't read accounts of polygamy as approvals of the practice—things often ended poorly)—therefore we cannot read about slavery in the Bible as an endorsement of race-based chattel slavery enabled by kidnapping (the Bible humanizes slaves, which was more like indentured servitude); furthermore, it's prideful to assume that our present culture is the moral yardstick
  45–46n26: reference to Noll's book on the American Civil War—it's inaccurate to say that all/most Xns approved of slavery based on biblical reasons [many Xns opposed slavery on biblical grounds, arguing that Xns who supported slavery were twisting Scripture]
  28–30: a final counterargument is that since this issue is sooooo complicated, shouldn't we be charitable toward those women who feel called to the ministry (err on the side of love), and just let them go through with it?; but this is "a popular postmodern despair that such a thing as truth exists"; we can be open-minded without being airheads (my summary), so arriving at a conclusion is okay; see 46n28: few people say "why not err on the side of obedience and not ordain women?"
  
  Part 2: Personal Journeys
  31–32: abuses by complementarians don't justify emotional overcompensating and ignoring the texts (see 46n30–31); it is a justice issue, but it's primarily a theological issue (what has God said?); you may feel called to this, but "your life takes on meaning and matures when you conform to God's will, not when you get to do what you want to do"; this issue is not like equal pay for equal work
  32–33: it's not unjust for women not to be ordained, but it is unjust for women to be marginalized (can't even distribute church bulletins); fear arises out of the domino theory [cf. slippery slope]; "a woman's place" is not determined by tradition or culture, but by Scripture
  34: "every role legitimately open to unordained men and women [should be] filled with women as well as men"
  35: Elisabeth Elliot (Kathy's professor at Gordon-Conwell) distinguished between gifts and roles—she was gifted far beyond most men in ministry (language knowledge, speaking experience, maturity through suffering, etc.), but she used those gifts in unordained roles
  35–36: this gifts-roles distinction applies to men too: many men may not feel like being a leader and taking risks, but feelings < God-given roles
  36: Christ's ontological equality with the Father, but His economic submission (mystery of the Trinity); see 47n35: Keller rejects the eternal submission theory (she says that she knows of no complementarians who espouse this and warns egalitarians about attributing beliefs to those who do not hold those beliefs; but that was in 2012; in 2016, complementarian Wayne Grudem explicitly promoted the eternal submission of the Son)
  36–37: C. S. Lewis's
  "Priestess in the Church" (in God in the Dock) says that God created two sexes, and we mess with that order to our own harm; God could have given us hermaphroditic bodies [politically correct term is "intersex"], but He didn't; God is teaching us something about Himself (in our relationship to the Son, our bridegroom, we are all female in a way—God chose that metaphor intentionally, and it means something)
  37–38: unisex undifferentiation may be helpful in legal, civil, and other situations, but not in the church or at home
  38: "Justice, in the end, is whatever God decrees" [I don't think Keller is a nominalist]
  38–39: "The justice behind God's creation of male and female and his arrangement of the different roles he chose for them may not always be apparent to us. Why one and not the other? But should we expect our finitude to understand the infinite, omnipotent, wise, good, lovely, gracious justice of God? Perhaps some inkling resides in the dance of the sexes, by which we reveal truth about the inner life of the triune God. The rest is clothed in mystery, to which we yield, with full confidence that it is meant for our good."
• 
  May

  For a subject that is difficult and sensitive, Kathy Keller brings sound wisdom and personal perspective. Her treatment of key verses and counter-arguments is impressively full despite the brevity of the book.
  As a woman who is really seeking to understand this issue for myself as well as understand why others stand where they do, I am super thankful for the clarity she brings in this book. I am also thankful for the way she acknowledges how we must trust in the goodness of God when we don’t understand His motivation behind the design he put into place - we can know, however, that the mystery of gender roles is here to reveal truth about Him and it is in obeying His will that we find our true selves. Highly recommend this booklet to men and women!
• 
  Samuel Kassing

  A short ebook for male-only ordination.
  
  Anything an unordained man can do a woman can do as well would sum up Keller’s position concisely.
• 
  Peter Jones

  I knew I would disagree with Mrs. Keller before I started. However, I do not automatically give those I disagree with low ratings. If a person makes a concerted effort to address differing viewpoints, etc. I will give a higher rating to them despite my disagreements. I also realize this is a booklet and not a full length treatment of the topic. But this book does more harm than good by running with too many unproven assumptions to make sweeping generalizations about men, women, and the church. This is easy to do in a booklet of this size. But when your position is in a minority in your own tradition you should be more persistent in proving your point and addressing dissenting view points. Perhaps this comes from her own skewed view of her position. She sees herself as a conservative on male/female roles and in some ways she might be in our current context. But overall her position of a woman can do anything an unordained man can do is not conservative when it is placed against the backdrop of God's people in the past. I might write a more lengthy review later interacting with her exegesis of the two passages she primarily looked at.
  
  I find it ironic that this book is consider non-egalitarian/complementarian when it is close to being full egalitarian and would not be recognized by most of our fathers in the faith as being true to the Scriptures or to the reality of the way God made the world.
  
  My Rating System
  1 Star-Terrible book and dangerous. Burn it in the streets.
  
  2 Stars-Really bad book, would not recommend, probably has some dangerous ideas in it or could just be so poorly written/researched that it is not worth reading. Few books I read are 1 or 2 stars because I am careful about what I read.
  
  3 Stars-Either I disagree with it at too many points to recommend it or it is just not a good book on the subject or for the genre. Would not read it again, reference it, or recommend it. But it is not necessarily dangerous except as a time waster.
  
  4 Stars-Solid book on the subject or for the genre. This does not mean I agree with all that is said. I would recommend this book to others and would probably read it again or reference it. Most books fall in this category because I try not to read books I don’t think will be good. There is a quite a variety here. 3.6 is quite different from 4.5.
  
  5 Stars-Excellent book. Classic in the genre or top of the line for the subject. I might also put a book in here that impacted me personally at the time I read it. I would highly recommend this book, even if I do not agree with all that it says. Few books fall in this category. Over time I have put less in this category.
  
• 
  JD Tyler

  While I’m still filtering through my own beliefs on this topic I appreciate Kathy Keller’s perspective. She takes on the two most significant problem passages—from 1 Cor and 1 Timothy—while tackling common objections as well. A welcome addition to this conversation!
• 
  Caleb Rolling

  I expect a lot out of a book in a series entitled "Fresh Perspectives on Women in Ministry." A never ceasing river of ink flows over the topic of women in ministry, so it is a lofty claim to be putting forth "fresh" perspectives on the subject. What led me to this little book was an extraordinarily positive experience reading John Dickson's book "Hearing Her Voice: A Case for Women Giving Sermons" in the same series. Dickson covers a ton over just over 100 pages, and it is truly a "fresh" perspective on women in ministry; it is a wonderfully thought-provoking book, even if one doesn't necessarily come to all of his same conclusions.
  
  I also hold Tim and Kathy Keller in high esteem, so I was eager to hear Kathy's own perspective on this issue. I appreciate her heart behind this book; this is an issue she has spent a significant portion of her life wrestling with. Her testimony in this short book is authentic and honest. However, I am unsure what kind of book this is supposed to be. Half of the book (~20 pages) she spends dealing with 1 Corinthians 14 and 1 Timothy 2 as well as issues in hermeneutics. The other half (~20 pages) consists of personal testimony, applications, and responses to potential objections. This divided focus spreads Keller's focus thinly which leads to less than thorough arguments.
  
  I won't belabor this point here, because the root cause of my disagreement lies outside the scope of her book. I don't wholly agree with Keller's hermeneutics. I can dismiss this point, though. However, her exegesis here is spotty. Her treatment of 1 Corinthians 14:33b-38 is speculative. Her treatment of 1 Timothy 2:11-12 is a rather black and white, literalistic interpretation. Her hermeneutic that "Scripture interprets Scripture" then allows her to neglect firm, supported conclusions in 1 Corinthians 14 and allow 1 Timothy 2, what she calls the "clear" text, to take precedent; 1 Timothy 2 is used like a trump card.
  
  My second main objection is the way Keller addresses potential objections. She acknowledges that the three objections she describes are oversimplifications. Yet she essentially describes straw-men for her to knock down one by one in a clean, tidy fashion. Is this productive and charitable? Some of the advocates for these opposing position (eg. William Webb and his book "Slaves, Women and Homosexuals") are even fellow evangelicals, who hold to the inerrancy of the Bible, a doctrine Keller emphasizes throughout the book.
  
  At the end of the day, this book is not a "fresh perspective." It is simply a rehashing of a thoroughly covered area of study.
• 
  Kris

  Helpful for a brief explanation of a narrow complimentarian view, but it barely scratches the surface. In only 48 pages, she just doesn't have the room to do much here.
  
  I think in some ways, if taken to their natural ends, some of Keller's points actually create other unnecessary problems. She says she doesn't know why God created gender roles, but we should simply accept them. It might have been helpful if she instead pointed out the ways that gender roles are a blessing in the church and secular world, not some kind of hindrance or something to blindly be followed.
  
  See Jeremy’s helpful review here:
  https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
• 
  Jess

  As a general rule I rarely read religious books, or non-fiction for that matter, but I gave myself a goal of reading 10 nonfiction books this year. This is the first.
  
  I found this book surprisingly easy to read, and Keller's intellectual approach appealed to me. I'm personally still wrestling with this issue in some regard, although less so than in the past, but I really liked the second half of this book. I found that many of the truths I hold logically can extend to gender roles in the church (which as she says has long and continues to be misunderstood). I expect I'll continue wrestling with this issue but this was a nice, compact look at it.
• 
  Walter Cone

  A straight forward discussion of the scripture that identifies a difference in the role God has for women and men. It will Challenge you to reflect on how we should view the difference between our secular Human world and God’s world.
• 
  Danny Joseph

  I love books that show people who have changed their minds about things. Kathy Keller comes from a perspective that did not embrace complementarianism to one that does. And in that, she has a sense of empathy for those who disagree with her. She characterizes the egalitarian movement well and spends a large chunk of the book dismantling common egalitarian objections. She also helpfully points out that, at least in her experience, many of those in the egalitarian position were not driven by the text.
  
  Kathy Keller seems to also hold what some would call a "narrow" complementarian, relegating the debate on men and woman's roles just to headship in marriage and the office of the elder. This is in some ways "bare bones" complementarianism, which is the easiest to defend from a strictly textual standpoint.
  
  The book is compassionate, clear, and well thought out. I would definitely recommend this book for anyone jumping into the complementarian-egalitarian debate, even if at the end of the day, they land somewhere different than Kathy Keller.
• 
  Erin Quillen

  In the Jesus, Justice & Gender Roles' introduction, Keller sets out with the question:“How does one talk pastorally and compassionately to twenty-first century people so that the notion of gender roles is presented not as an embarrassing antiquity the church is stuck with but as a gift, meant for our good?” (7). Later she asks, "How can that be done with joy, rather than with grudging resentment (for all joyless obedience commits the sin of questioning God's love)?" (30).
  
  Keller approaches these question with both faithfulness to Scripture and compassion for those who may struggle, first, to accept these gender-specific roles outlined in Scripture, and second, to understand how these parameters might apply in our present contexts. This case for gender roles in ministry is succinct, easy to follow, and generous in affirming the role of women in the life of the church while maintaining a faithfully complementarian position.
• 
  Will

  Kathy Keller not only makes a compelling biblical case for the position of male headship in church leadership, she also calls for both genders to be full co-laborers in the body of Christ instead of sitting in the injustice of oppression of women's gifts. Answering understandable questions with wisdom and accessibility, I would recommend this 40-page book for anyone wrestling with this issue. (I held back from a full 5 stars because her language can be a touch raspy and outdated at times. Also, I longed for her to keep writing! There is certainly more to say in terms of application within local churches.)
• 
  Laísa Lemes

  Neste pequeno livro - mas cheio de conteúdo -, Kathy Keller aborda a questão do ministério feminino na Igreja. Kathy contempla a visão complementarista, trazendo questões de hermenêutica e pessoais para justifica-la. É um livro que, apesar de curto, explica com muita precisão as justificativas para essa visão, com muito embasamento bíblico. Kathy Keller em nenhum momento tenta explicar o porquê Deus criou essas diferenças de gênero, mas enfatiza que Deus, sendo Soberano e Bondoso, sabe com toda certeza o que está fazendo.
• 
  Jake Wiig

  I appreciated her hermeneutical approach to the two key passages regarding women in the church.
  Her stance seems well thought out, and she communicates it in a way that is easy to understand.
  
  Kathy Keller falls short when she attempts to briefly describe and explain other perspectives, using a series of strawmen fallacies. Where she had an opportunity to shed light on a complex, nuanced topic, she shortchanges her readers by using these strawmen and her dismissive tone toward egalitarian perspectives.
• 
  Alex House

  Highly recommend for anyone wanting to understand what the Bible says about women in the church. Kathy Keller defines words and gives the facts then her personal opinion. Short and sweet and an informative, unbiased read.
• 
  Denham

  Short but helpful intro book to the subject.
• 
  Mitchell Dixon

  “Anything that an unordained man is allowed to do, a woman is also allowed to do.”
• 
  Kevin Kamm

  Kathy argues that anything an unordained man can do a woman can also do.
• 
  Haley Dorris

  Absolutely fantastic. A short guide to biblical complementarianism that is, unsurprisingly, counter-cultural yet honoring to God and all people he created.
• 
  Paul Lewis

  This was a decent read. Fairly good intro on the topic of understanding complementarianism.
• 
  Alex Strohschein

  A short book by the wife of one of the USA's leading pastors, Kathy Keller offers a complementarian perspective on women's ordination. I appreciate that she comments on some of the main arguments in favour of women's ordination, but the brevity of the book prevents her from really engaging with them (e.g. she mentions William Webb's excellent "Slaves, Women and Homosexuals" but doesn't walk through Webb's careful, if lengthy, argument). One point I found compelling is Keller's statement that we musn't confuse or collapse gifts and roles; many women are gifted by God with wonderful ministerial qualities but they don't necessarily need a pulpit in order to use them. This is a fair point. Still, I find Keller's case lacking and sometimes rather self-defeating or potentially contradictory. For instance, in refuting charges that St. Paul was misogynist, Keller notes that he used women as carriers of his letters. But egalitarians also note that messengers were often relied upon to explain the sent letter; it could be that an early Christian woman like Phoebe was the first to expound and clarify the epistle to the Romans. I also think there isn't enough of a distinction between "women's ordination" and "gender roles" in this book; not all supporters of women's ordination dismiss the concept of gender roles but Keller seems to imply that. The value of this book is that it gives a brief overview of the complementarian perspective (ironic that its written by a woman whereas the two other books in this series that are egalitarian are written by men).
• 
  Jeanie

  A case for gender role ministries can be a topic that is sensitive in most growing churches. Is the word relevant for today? Corinthians 14:34 is addressed where women are to keep quiet in the church. Is this fair? Is this justice? Ms. Keller starts her short book with basic bible study 101. What does the word say? What is the context? and the why. I liked how she brought out the justice of this verse and made it very real for me. Do I believe that God is just. Do I believe in the goodness of God in this verse. The justice is the strengthening of the church for the whole body. Is Jesus the authority of the church. Ms. Keller also brings out how the Lord himself valued the women in his life. Can we trust his word any less. Another point that was brought out is our calling verses our roles in ministry. We need to get back to the basic of our God-given roles that male and female compliment each other, not compete with each other. We remain true to God's design for our roles, our callings will be used for His Glory. Is that not what the church is meant for?
• 
  Marcia

  I find Kathy Keller's speaking and writing immensely easy to read and clear. I appreciate her handling of scripture and found this book helpful in finding my place within the area of complementarianism. While I am completely convinced of the Biblical truth of complementarianism and am against the ordination of women as pastors, I still struggle with the practical application of locating the "line" women are not to cross. I didn't find this book all that helpful in that regard as my personal belief and understanding seems to fall somewhere between my Pastor's line and Kathy Keller's line. At least I am narrowing it down!
• 
  Ariel Curry

  I read this book wanting to give a fair shot to complementarianism. As Kathy Keller herself says, “I have no investment in being wrong. I do not desire to be deceived or to deceive. So by all means, let us look at the data again.” One of my complementarian friends asked me to hold this belief with open hands, and I try to do so. Unfortunately, I didn’t realize that this short book (only 48 pages) really isn’t an in-depth explanation of complementarianism. I wanted Kathy to try to change my mind, but she really wasn’t able to in 48 pages.
• 
  Amber Debenning

  Thankful to Kathy Keller for this excellent explication of complementarianism. She is so theologically grounded and offers a treatise that is incredibly understandable. One thing I appreciate so much about this short book is that Keller graciously shows freedom where many see constriction.
• 
  Derek

  Good little book on the role of women in the church. Really appreciate Kathy Keller's perspective.
• 
  Amy Morgan

  This is a short read and avoids the pitfall of overstated arguments that plague many complementarian books. I appreciated hearing from a woman who ministers in a liberal setting where the idea of some roles in the church being reserved for women is a horrible offense. She takes a frank but compassionate approach to the subject.
  
  Keller believes women are forbidden “authoritative teaching” roles in the church, which she seems to practically define as pulpit teaching and exercising church discipline. She interprets the 1 Tim and 1 Cor passages forbid women from making judgments about what is gospel and what is heresy, though, and I have trouble understanding how that fits under preaching and pastoring. At one point she seems to imply that non-authoritative teaching means that if you think it’s bad, you can just ignore it.
  
  I have found that gender roles tend to be presented as “men are leaders; women are submitters” or as “women’s primary place of ministry is the home; men’s primary place is......idk something else.” Keller emphasized men as leaders in the church and though she said that women can and should exercise leadership and teaching in non-authoritative ways, I wish she would have included more examples.